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@  KennyL : (20 August 2014 - 06:21 AM) https://www.facebook....culp.7?fref=ts
@  theronz : (20 August 2014 - 05:14 AM) not too good at facebook, but i think if you look for ron culp in south bend IN, you can see some pics of my G. maybe some of my wife naked IDK. lemme know what you see.
@  borgwarrior : (16 August 2014 - 08:51 AM) Oh, so that's it. I have that :)
@  Stratuscaster : (15 August 2014 - 04:09 PM) JA Service Manual
@  borgwarrior : (15 August 2014 - 01:47 PM) Is the factory service manual available somewhere?
@  KennyL : (15 August 2014 - 11:02 AM) A bit more in depth: The Haynes manual was hashed out by a company that dis-assembled and re-assembled a car all while writing it out. The Factory Service Manual was written by the people who built and engineered the car and was designed to be used by factory service technicians. You'd be hard pressed to come up with something the FSM doesn't have, while the Haynes sometimes has errors and does not list things in a clear manner.
@  Stratuscaster : (15 August 2014 - 07:04 AM) It's certainly not as complete as the FSM from Chrysler - good to have as a reference, but not the be-all/end-all.
@  borgwarrior : (15 August 2014 - 12:02 AM) Uuh, why is haynes ######? just curious, helped me more than once, altough I'm not exactly the mechanic type
@  Dylan214 : (14 August 2014 - 09:48 AM) lol
@  Stratuscaster : (14 August 2014 - 06:52 AM) Not true - I've shimmed a wobbly table with one, so it is useful in that regard.
@  BeaterStatus : (13 August 2014 - 11:31 PM) Good for toilet paper and not much else
@  BeaterStatus : (13 August 2014 - 11:31 PM) Haynes is ######
@  Dylan214 : (13 August 2014 - 09:25 AM) great thank u
@  Stratuscaster : (13 August 2014 - 07:35 AM) Not a bad idea at all.
@  Dylan214 : (13 August 2014 - 06:01 AM) Lol okay, well i am going to steal all of the pdf's on this link lol

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Overfilled A/C refrigerant?


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#1 DrWebster

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Posted 17 July 2005 - 04:47 PM

Hey all,

I've been having some minor problems with my A/C lately -- namely, it would only be cold when the engine was above about 2500rpm, and I would also hear a hissing sound periodically that sounded like it was coming from behind the glovebox.

So I went to AutoZone today and, after reading through the A/C section in my Haynes manual, picked up a can on R134a and the appropriate hose. I followed the directions on the can and in the manual -- hooked up the hose to what the manual said was the low side of the system (the hose near the strut tower), started and ran the car with the A/C on, and let the can empty into the system. I didn't notice any problems, and the hissing lessened and the A/C seemed to run colder at idle. So I thought I had fixed my problem.

Well, a few hours later when pulling out of the Chipotle parking lot, I saw some smoke coming from underneath the car. I turned off the A/C and kept driving, and the smoke disappeared. As a test, I turned the A/C back on while driving, and didn't notice any more smoke.

When I got home a few minutes later, I turned off the car and popped the hood. I saw a little bit of white smoke coming from the front of the engine bay, and looked down to see it coming from some fluid that was on the crossbar just aft of the radiator fan.

The car is 10 years old and has never had any work done on the A/C system since it was new. I figured a can of refrigerant wouldn't hurt, but the can/hose combo I bought didn't include a pressure gauge. The Haynes manual said to never add more than 2 cans of refrigerant, so I figured I was okay since I only added one can (and adding that can seemed to make a difference). I guess I'm wondering if the burning whatever-it-is is normal, or if I screwed up somewhere. When investigating the smoke, I noticed that there was another A/C line, one right by the radiator. I assume this is the high side, since the photo in the Haynes manual clearly showed a can of refrigerant hooked up to the hose by the strut tower.

Sorry for the long read, but I just want to make sure I didn't break anything, and what I need to do to stop the burning whatever-it-is (I'm assuming it's refrigerant). Thanks!

#2 Stratuscaster

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Posted 17 July 2005 - 04:52 PM

Those cans usually also contain an oil for the A/C compressor along with the refrigerant. That might be what you see leaking/smoking. Which tells me you may have an A/C leak somewhere in the system.

#3 DrWebster

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Posted 17 July 2005 - 04:57 PM

Those cans usually also contain an oil for the A/C compressor along with the refrigerant. That might be what you see leaking/smoking. Which tells me you may have an A/C leak somewhere in the system.

 


Now that you mention it, the whatever-it-is on the crossmember looked oily. That would really stink if it was a leak, as I just a few months ago dropped quite a chunk of change to have the 100,000 mile maintenance done. Could the leak be intentional? Is there some sort of bleeder valve built into the system to relieve excess pressure?

Regardless, it definitely sounds like the car needs to go in -- I know how to do some maintenance, but checking out the A/C system is beyond my ability. Is there anyone here who knows of a good place I can have this looked at in the St. Paul area?

#4 need4speed

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Posted 17 July 2005 - 06:00 PM

overfilling the ac system is bad. this would artificially pressurize the system through overfill, instead of the compressor. by over pressurizing the system... there is no room for the freon to expand. it is the expansion of the freon on the low pressure side that sucks all the heat from the surrounding area (usually around the evaporator core). try to imagine your skin, when you sweat (compressor compressing the freon into a liquid like state), and when the sweat evaporates turning into a gaseous state (the compressed freon hitting the evaporator core), do you feel cooler? now if the system is overfilled, its like sweating under the hot sun with 90% humidity. the sweat cannot evaporate since there's no room for it to evaporate. this is the worst case scenario when it comes to ac performance. but this is a really crude analogy at best of how the ac system work. check out howstuffworks.com... it would explain it a ton better than i can.

aside from that, if the system is overfilled, there should be a cut-off switch that kills the system when the system is over-pressurized by the compressor. in your situation, the compressor now takes the overfilled system and pressurize it even more when you are accelerating / off idle. somewhere there's gonna be a weak leak in the ac system, and that side will burst first. that is if your cut-off switch is no longer functioning?

best to get this checked by the pro... you guys are lucky that you can get r134a refills in your local auto parts store. us canucks up here, no such luck. at least i couldn't find any. but lucky for me, before they banned r12 (which pretty much removed all diy tools and supplies for ac stuff), i bought an ac pressure gauge. kinda looks like a tire pressure gauge but for ac purpose. this is not as accurate as the dial gauge pro uses. but it gives me an indication nonetheless.

#5 DrWebster

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 03:26 PM

Thanks for all the advice. I took the car into a reputable shop this morning, and a mechanic just called me. He said that they took a look at it and the problem doesn't have anything to do with the fact I added a can of refrigerant. He said that the refrigerant in the system was getting way overpressurized, to the point that the relief valve had to let off some of the pressure -- so Stratuscaster, you're right in that it was the oil in the new can of refrigerant that was burning. He said there isn't a leak in the system -- they flushed and refilled the refrigerant, but noticed that the auxiliary radiator fan wasn't turning on like it should. He doesn't think it's the compressor, but rather a sensor or some control board. I'll keep you all up to date on what happens; who knows, maybe it'll help someone down the road to diagnose a similar problem.

#6 95fivespeedstratus

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 05:00 PM

The pressure transducer is most likely the problem. It sends a signal to the PCM, the PCM reads it as pressure, and cycles the radiator fans on and off to maintain proper operaiting pressures. That stinken little part cost almost a hundred bucks plus the connector plug is different so the old plug needs cutt out, a new one needs soldered in place, and the splice covered with shrink tubbing. This is a very common problem on 95 and 96 model years. I have already had the pleasure of replacing mine.

Edited by 95fivespeedstratus, 18 July 2005 - 05:11 PM.


#7 Tino

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 10:41 PM

Did it smell of burning?

Just had similar experience after replacing the evaporator and charging her up. Turned out that the condensor fan, the one on the right side that burnt to a crisp. replaced it today and all is fine now.

Tino

#8 DrWebster

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 07:09 AM

Did it smell of burning?

Just had similar experience after replacing the evaporator and charging her up.  Turned out that the condensor fan, the one on the right side that burnt to a crisp.  replaced it today and all is fine now.

Tino

 


I did get a burning smell, along with some white smoke. It didn't seem to come from the auxiliary fan, though, but rather some oil that escaped the pressure relief valve and landed on a hot crossmember. The shop did say that the fan wasn't working though, so I'm betting it's some kind of controller or relay that went south, like 95fivespeedstratus said.

#9 DrWebster

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 12:05 PM

Well, I just got a call back from the shop -- it was indeed the pressure transducer. All said and done, parts and labor (including the cost of flushing and refilling the system) it'll run me $400. That's not cheap, but it could be worse.

#10 SnookayDCC

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 02:47 PM

Well, I just got a call back from the shop -- it was indeed the pressure transducer. All said and done, parts and labor (including the cost of flushing and refilling the system) it'll run me $400. That's not cheap, but it could be worse.

 



damn that isnt cheap. Last time my car A/C broke and to fix would cost $350 i bought a new car. :excited: Any way for you to fix that transducer yourself?

I believe ill need to get my A/C checked out because today while riding in the 100 degree weather i had my ac on and accelerated hard. All of a sudden my blower is pumping outside air into my car. After waiting maybe 2 minutes for it to fix itself i say ###### it and roll down my windows. As soon as i roll the windows down the cold air blows in. Very wierd.

Hey does your engine shake when you turn the AC on? Im talkn about a shake you can hear and feel inside the car. Mine does, it did it when i first bought the car then stopped, now its back. :excited:

#11 DrWebster

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 05:16 PM

damn that isnt cheap.  Last time my car A/C broke and to fix would cost $350 i bought a new car.  :yes:  Any way for you to fix that transducer yourself? 

I believe ill need to get my A/C checked out because today while riding in the 100 degree weather i had my ac on and accelerated hard.  All of a sudden my blower is pumping outside air into my car.  After waiting maybe 2 minutes for it to fix itself i say ###### it and roll down my windows.  As soon as i roll the windows down the cold air blows in.  Very wierd.

Hey does your engine shake when you turn the AC on?  Im talkn about a shake you can hear and feel inside the car.  Mine does, it did it when i first bought the car then stopped, now its back.    B)

 


No kidding that isn't cheap...$411.82 after tax and all that. Can't really afford a new car right now, and besides, my Cirrus still has a lot of life left in her (10 years old, but only ~90k miles). I would have fixed it myself if I had known from the start that the transducer was the problem, but since I didn't (and the Haynes manual makes absolutely no mention of it), I figured I might as well just have the shop do it. But after looking under the hood when I got it home, I can honestly say I would have had no problem doing the repair myself (just cut, splice, solder and heatshrink 4 wires, and screw in the new transducer).

My engine doesn't shake when the compressor comes on, but it does flutter a small amount in engine RPMs. I only notice it when the car is at idle, though, not while driving.